Bible Questions and Answers -  Those who believe Jesus is God (141 views) Subscribe   
  From:  Hisragamufin   1/9/2005 10:13 am  
To:  SqueakyBrown   (1 of 25)  
 
  930.1  
 
Psalm 100

in Him, Hisragamufin
 
  
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  From:  Hisragamufin   1/23/2005 1:24 pm  
To:  Hisragamufin   (2 of 25)  
 
  930.2 in reply to 930.1  
 
John 1:1-4;14

in Him, Hisragamufin
 
  
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  From:  SqueakyBrown   Feb-17 7:08 am  
To:  Hisragamufin   (3 of 25)  
 
  930.3 in reply to 930.1  
 
The Old testament is obsolete. Ofcourse that also proves you dont abide in the new testament.

Heb 8:13
13 In that He says, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.
(NKJ)

II Jn 1:8-11
8 Look to yourselves, that we do not lose those things we worked for, but that we may receive a full reward.
9 Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son.
10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this doctrine, do not receive him into your house nor greet him;
11 for he who greets him shares in his evil deeds.
(NKJ)

 
  
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  From:  SqueakyBrown   Feb-17 7:12 am  
To:  Hisragamufin   (4 of 25)  
 
  930.4 in reply to 930.2  
 

John 1:1-2

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 He was in the beginning with God.
(NKJ)

John 1:14
14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.
(NKJ)

Do you even see what this says? The only begotten Word of God that is full of grace and truth. That grace and truth came through the only begotten Son of God-Jesus.

John 1:17-18
17 For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.
18 No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him.
(NKJ)

 
  
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  From:  Hisragamufin   Feb-19 7:58 am  
To:  SqueakyBrown   (5 of 25)  
 
  930.5 in reply to 930.4  
 
Greetings SqeakyBrown,

Let us take another look at John 1:1-4. If we agree that the phrase "The Word" is a reference to Jesus Christ then this should follow: Jesus Christ was not only with God in the beginning but he was God in the beginning (John 1:1) The Word became flesh Hence God became flesh in the person of Jesus Christ. (John 1:14) Here is a simple illustration. Water has three forms. (Liquid,solid,and gas) Water doesn't cease to be water because it goes from a liquid state to a solid state. It just changes the form in which it exist. God came to earth in the form of a man (Jesus Christ) but the human form didn't cease to make him God. If Jesus was just a man,there is no way he could of saved a single person. No man has ever made it through life without a blemish but Jesus did. He was the perfect sacrifice to atone for our sins. This could only be possible if he was God.

in Him,
Hisragamufin
 
  
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  From:  SqueakyBrown   Feb-19 8:03 am  
To:  Hisragamufin   (6 of 25)  
 
  930.6 in reply to 930.5  
 
you said
Let us take another look at John 1:1-4. If we agree that the phrase "The Word" is a reference to Jesus Christ then this should follow

I said
then we dont agree. The Word is the Word. The Word is not Jesus.
The Word is God. In God was life.

John 1:1-4

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 He was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.
4 In Him was life, and the life was the light of men.
(NKJ)

 
  
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  From:  Hisragamufin   Feb-19 8:18 am  
To:  SqueakyBrown   (7 of 25)  
 
  930.7 in reply to 930.6  
 
Hello SqueakyBrown,

If we go off the premise :the Word is the Word and the Word is God then this should follow: The Word(God) was made flesh and dwelt among us..John 1:14 Who was this being of God in the flesh? Jesus Christ or do we not agree on this point that when God became flesh it was in the person of Jesus Christ.

in Him,
Hisragamufin
 
  
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  From:  Bob (hioo)   Feb-19 8:33 am  
To:  Hisragamufin   (8 of 25)  
 
  930.8 in reply to 930.5  
 
A friendly word of caution and advice. This one doesn't come on these boards to exchange ideas and thoughts of Christ, EXCEPT 100% on his terms. If you try to bring in the "truth" as YOU see it and he doesn't agree with your "truth" then the "argument" is quickly reduced to virtually reduced to a "yes", "no" type of squabble. What it amounts to is this person is a frustrated "preacher" looking for an "audience" to preach to.

I suspect you already know all this, but felt compelled to "caution and advise" you anyway. 

He is NOT seeking a level playing field for the two of you to "debate" on. He is only interested in "rigging the field" that he may have the "upper hand" in the debate. In effect there is no debate, for your part of it is nullified by his "rigging of the field". 

A word to the wise is sufficient.

I speak from a position of knowledge for I have attempted to do with him as you are now doing. And BTW, you have set up your query in a marvelous way, but if you stay with him for a few posts, you will see NO mention of your points, for they will "mysteriously" disappear. 

For instance you have so quickly and correctly pointed out that Lord Jesus IS the word and as John so capably put it in John 1:1 "The word was God and came to dwell among men" (paraphrased). And immediately he denies that is true. Now where has your debate gone, for he denys scripture or that scripture says to him what it says to you and me. So what he has done is take the bible off the table as the final authority in the "debate" between you and him. 

Just like the secular world does, only we have to give them credit, at least they aren't PRETENDING to be Christians. They don't add to or take away from scripture in order to make said scripture say something that they WANT it to say. Shoot, most of them don't even want to bring up the bible in any shape or form. 

So with having said all this,

God bless in your endeavors with this person. 

Ybic Bob


Born once; Die twice
Born twice; Die once 
  
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  From:  SqueakyBrown   Feb-19 4:25 pm  
To:  Hisragamufin   (9 of 25)  
 
  930.9 in reply to 930.7  
 
you said
If we go off the premise :the Word is the Word and the Word is God then this should follow: The Word(God) was made flesh and dwelt among us..John 1:14 Who was this being of God in the flesh? Jesus Christ or do we not agree on this point that when God became flesh it was in the person of Jesus Christ.

I said
No I'm sorry but we dont agree on that either. God was in christ and God gave the Word to Christ and Christ submitted to the Word. By submitting to the Word the Word became flesh in submission.

2 Cor 5:19
19 that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation.
(NKJ)

 
  
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  From:  Hisragamufin   Feb-19 5:42 pm  
To:  Bob (hioo)   (10 of 25)  
 
  930.10 in reply to 930.8  
 
Hi Bob, Thanks for the advice. Good looking out. ;) 
Matt 18:20
in Him, Hisragamufin 
  
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From:  David (DavidABrown)     Feb-20 8:18 am  
To:  Hisragamufin    
 
    
 
I have to agree completely with Hisragamufin and with Bob.


2 Cor 5:19 simply states that we Christians are a part of and are taking part in the Ministry of Jesus and His ministry is Reconciliation. Reconciling God to man and also reconciling mankind among mankind.


John 17:1-26


{17:1} These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to

heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son,

that thy Son also may glorify thee: {17:2} As thou hast

given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal

life to as many as thou hast given him. {17:3} And this is

life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God,

and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. {17:4} I have

glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which

thou gavest me to do. {17:5} And now, O Father, glorify

thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with

thee before the world was. {17:6} I have manifested thy

name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world:

thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have

kept thy word. {17:7} Now they have known that all things

whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee. {17:8} For I

have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and

they have received [them,] and have known surely that I

came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst

send me. {17:9} I pray for them: I pray not for the world,

but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.

{17:10} And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I

am glorified in them. {17:11} And now I am no more in the

world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy

Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast

given me, that they may be one, as we [are. ]{17:12} While

I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those

that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost,

but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

{17:13} And now come I to thee; and these things I speak

in the world, that they might have my joy fulfilled in

themselves. {17:14} I have given them thy word; and the

world hath hated them, because they are not of the world,

even as I am not of the world. {17:15} I pray not that thou

shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest

keep them from the evil. {17:16} They are not of the world,

even as I am not of the world. {17:17} Sanctify them

through thy truth: thy word is truth. {17:18} As thou hast

sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into

the world. {17:19} And for their sakes I sanctify myself,

that they also might be sanctified through the truth. {17:20}

Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall

believe on me through their word; {17:21} That they all

may be one; as thou, Father, [art] in me, and I in thee, that

they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that

thou hast sent me. {17:22} And the glory which thou gavest

me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are

one: {17:23} I in them, and thou in me, that they may be

made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou

hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

{17:24} Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given

me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory,

which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the

foundation of the world. {17:25} O righteous Father, the

world hath not known thee: but I have known thee, and

these have known that thou hast sent me. {17:26} And I

have declared unto them thy name, and will declare [it:] that

the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and

I in them.

 

David A. Brown
Basic Christian: Forum
www.BasicChristian.org

 From:  Hisragamufin   Feb-20 10:14 am  
To:  SqueakyBrown   (12 of 25)  
 
  930.12 in reply to 930.9  
 
Good day to you SqueakyBrown, At the risk of trying to pin jello to a tree here goes. I realize you said the old testament was obsolete and that by quoting from the old testament that proved I was not under the new covenent. I assure you I am under the blood of Jesus. My saved heart crys the words of the old hymn "Nothing but the blood" The point I was trying to make with Psalm 100 was that it is prophecy that was fullfilled in new testament scripture. Reread Psalm 100 and then take a look at John 10. In Psalm 100 it says The Lord is God. It also says we are the sheep of his pasture. John 10 says that Jesus is the goood shepherd. It also says that He is the door and that any man that entereth in he shall be saved and go in and out and find pasture. We (those that are saved) are the sheep of his pasture.
God Bless You!!

in Him, Hisragamufin
 
  
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  From:  Bob (hioo)   Feb-20 10:45 am  
To:  Hisragamufin   (13 of 25)  
 
  930.13 in reply to 930.12  
 
And if it means anything to you, I stand with you. Amen and AMEN. 

And though the Old Testament pointed TOWARDS our Lord, it STILL tells us plenty about Him. So much so in prophecy that by using the laws of probability math, the only sane and rational decision one can make about the accuracy of prophecy is that IT WAS AUTHORED by God and no other. The ratio against this is a fantastically high ratio. 

The New Testament tells us ABOUT Lord Jesus and fulfills many of the words spoken of Him in the Old Testament.

The bottom line to all this? Both books of the bible need to be understood by Christians, for ONE IS AS IMPORTANT AS THE OTHER. While our emphasis might well be placed on the New Testament, for our Lord is evidence of that emphasis, it STILL behooves us to learn all we can about Him. 

What better background can we attain than that background that is given us in the Old Testament? There is no better one that I am aware of.


Born once; Die twice
Born twice; Die once 
  
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  From:  SqueakyBrown   Feb-20 8:44 pm  
To:  Hisragamufin   (14 of 25)  
 
  930.14 in reply to 930.12  
 
you said
Good day to you SqueakyBrown, At the risk of trying to pin jello to a tree here goes. I realize you said the old testament was obsolete and that by quoting from the old testament that proved I was not under the new covenent. I assure you I am under the blood of Jesus

I said
Well I hope so but that is between you and God. What I do know is this, that if anyone tried to be justified by anything in the old testament that Jesus has NOT brought over to the new testament. They could fall from grace.

Gal 5:4
4 You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.
(NKJ)

 
  
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  From:  SqueakyBrown   Feb-20 8:46 pm  
To:  Bob (hioo)   (15 of 25)  
 
  930.15 in reply to 930.13  
 
Bob you said
And though the Old Testament pointed TOWARDS our Lord, it STILL tells us plenty about Him. So much so in prophecy that by using the laws of probability math, the only sane and rational decision one can make about the accuracy of prophecy is that IT WAS AUTHORED by God and no other. The ratio against this is a fantastically high ratio. 

I said
Well you can use any laws you want to. But I do know this. That the law of Christ is the only one that will get us to heaven.

 
  
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  From:  Bob (hioo)   Feb-21 6:24 am  
To:  SqueakyBrown   (16 of 25)  
 
  930.16 in reply to 930.15  
 
Squeak, you are right. For once I agree with you. I am so shocked that I caught you saying something right for a change, well, I am SPEECHLESS!

But having said that, so much of your premise on your take on Christianity is so wrong, that basically what you post is misdirection for others.

And that is the danger for folks such as yourself, Squeak. Even though your efforts are correct in your mind, they are incorrect for others to read, by and large. That is another thing that is dangerous about you. You instill just enough truth in your posts at various times, that people will conclude that your material is credible....and injest it. 

Squeak, if a LITTLE bit of truth is acceptable to you, why can't ANY thing you post then be the WHOLE truth, NOTHING but the truth, SO HELP YOU GOD! 

Then when people read your material, they will be absorbing the truth instead of a bunch of lies cleverly embedded in a little bit of truth. 

The very being you are trying to oppose, is the very one you assist, for HE USES EXACTLY THE SAME METHOD YOU USE to get his lies across.

Think about that Squeak. Is this the being you REALLY want to assist?


Born once; Die twice
Born twice; Die once 
  
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  From:  SqueakyBrown   Feb-21 2:46 pm  
To:  Bob (hioo)   (17 of 25)  
 
  930.17 in reply to 930.16  
 
You said
That is another thing that is dangerous about you. You instill just enough truth in your posts at various times, that people will conclude that your material is credible....and injest it. 

I said
that does go both ways. That is how the trinitarians deceive the mulitute, with just alittle bit of truth.
 
  
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  From:  Bob (hioo)   Feb-21 3:19 pm  
To:  SqueakyBrown   (18 of 25)  
 
  930.18 in reply to 930.17  
 
So both of us know these methods well. I know them for the purpose to guard against them and try to defeat them wherever I find them. It is Christ Jesus and Him crucified that is the only truth that will help save people.

Born once; Die twice
Born twice; Die once 
  
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  From:  SqueakyBrown   Feb-21 4:50 pm  
To:  Bob (hioo)   (19 of 25)  
 
  930.19 in reply to 930.18  
 

John 3:34
34 "For He whom God has sent speaks the words of God, for God does not give the Spirit by measure.
(NKJ)

2 Cor 4:3-4
3 But even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing,
4 whose minds the god of this age has blinded, who do not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them.
(NKJ)

 
  
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   From:  Hisragamufin   Feb-22 7:08 pm  
To:  SqueakyBrown   (20 of 25)  
 
  930.20 in reply to 930.6  
 
Greetings again SqueakyBrown:) IRT John 1:1 you said: The Word is the Word. The Word is not Jesus. The Word is God. In God was life. Go with me for a minute to 1John 5:7 "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father,the Word, and the Holy Ghost and these three are one." Based on this verse and looking at John 1:1 Who does the phrase "the Word" refer to? Based on 1 John 5:7 What is your view on the trinity?

in Him, Hisragamufin



 
  
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From:  SqueakyBrown   Feb-22 7:21 pm  
To:  Hisragamufin   (21 of 25)  
 
  930.21 in reply to 930.20  
 
All you have to do is look at verse 8 to know what verse 7 is saying.
Are one means to agree as one.

I Jn 5:7-8
7 For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one.
8 And there are three that bear witness on earth: the Spirit, the water, and the blood; and these three agree as one.
(NKJ)

 
  
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  From:  David (DavidABrown)     Feb-23 8:31 pm  
To:  Hisragamufin   (22 of 25)  
 
  930.22 in reply to 930.21  
 
*Note

Squeaky has left the forum.

He may be back though it will be with a different name since he is locked out.

It is not right for Squeaky to cut and paste from other places and then post here.

He needs his own material in his postings.

This is in regard to a different thread that he just started and I deleted.

David



David A. Brown
Basic Christian: Forum
www.BasicChristian.org

 
  
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  From:  amym38     Feb-24 1:05 am  
To:  David (DavidABrown)    (23 of 25)  
 
  930.23 in reply to 930.22  
 
OK, David.  Thanks for letting us know.
_____________________________

Host:  Speaking The Truth In Love
Asst.: Basic Christian
 
  
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  From:  Bob (hioo)   Feb-24 6:37 am  
To:  David (DavidABrown)    (24 of 25)  
 
  930.24 in reply to 930.22  
 
God bless you David,

This person can cause more grief in a second than most people can cause in an hour. The love of Lord Jesus is just not shown in this person. He personifies a lot of the qualities of "someone else" we are aware of though. 

I just gave up trying to reason with him. There is NO way short of face to face that such a thing could be accomplished. 

Ybic Bob


Born once; Die twice
Born twice; Die once 
  
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   From:  Franklookingup (Franksharing)    Jul-23 3:35 pm  
To:  SqueakyBrown unread  (25 of 25)  
 
  930.25 in reply to 930.3  
 
Hi Sqeaky. How are you doing my freind ?

>>
The Old testament is obsolete. Ofcourse that also proves you dont abide in the new testament.
>>

You really believe the Old Testament holds no insights to who Jesus is? Without the Old we would have not evidence to base our trust in the New.

>>
Heb 8:13
13 In that He says, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.
(NKJ)
>>

This verse is telling the reader that the old covenant or promise of a coming savior to shed His blood to deliver us form our sins was fulfilled. Making the old obsolete which opened the way for the new covenant or promise! 
Jesus is coming again to receive us unto Himself. Amen!

May the Light of Jesus shine forth with blessing from on High.
Frank



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Edited 7/23/2005 6:50 pm ET by Franklookingup (Franksharing) 
  
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